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Breaking the Silence

@lessi17 said in #132:
> why would someone go to court?
Because they committed sexual assault, this is much bigger than the game of chess.
In my opinion, such a person if proven guilty should be given life in prison and not just simply be banned from a stupid chess club or whatever.
@Bulletkrieg said in #133:
> The evidence that can be admitted in court.

No no please, you don't understand my question.
What kind of evidence do you think could exist that has not already been presented?

And as for courts.... what do you think courts base their judgements on in sexual harrassment/assault cases?

I'm sorry but it seems to me that you do not actually have any idea how the legal system works
good riddance for the saint louis chess club. their commentary team is much better these days. hoping for many more years of world class events with amazing coverage!
Of course gmRamirez will keep playing his chess, what do you want us chess to do, ban him on a whim? If any sexual harassment hapens, the victim should complain right away, there and then! can't bother the law otherwise. Doesnt matter if its Ramirez or bill cosby or MJ. Idk if GM Ramirez has done it, but Im pretty sure it's very hard to prove it years after. When an illegal thing ( except jaywalking and memeing) occurs, you do something...i hope im not misleading.
@lessi17 said in #135:
> What kind of evidence do you think could exist that has not already been presented?
No clue. Not my point.
> what do you think courts base their judgements on in sexual harrassment/assault cases?
Nothing special about sexual harassment/assault cases, it must be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that the suspect is indeed guilty of the crime.
> I'm sorry but it seems to me that you do not actually have any idea how the legal system works
lol
I believe it can be a real pain in order to try to keep calm.
@Bulletkrieg said in #140:
> No clue. Not my point.
>
> Nothing special about sexual harassment/assault cases, it must be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that the suspect is indeed guilty of the crime.
>
> lol

Okay so I'll give you some homework: look up some judgements in sexual harassment/sexual assault cases where the accused was found guilty (bonus points if you look at different jurisdictions) and see what evidence the court considered to be sufficient. Then go and compare it to what is known about the Ramirez case.

And the point about what evidence you would consider sufficient is quite simple, I would think. The standard you are expecting is simply impossible to meet. No matter what evidence you are presented with, you can retreat and say "this is not conclusive proof". But if you actually had any inclination of how the legal system works you would know that "beyond a reasonable doubt" does not require forensic evidence or a video of the incident or whatever standard you might make up in your head. The term is REASONABLE doubt. There can still be doubt, as you are demonstrating, but there can, in many situations not be REASONABLE doubt, as you are also demonstrating.

Anyway, as this case demostrates, nobody in the real world actually shares your idea of evidentiary standards so you can keep shouting into the void or (and I would suggest this second option) maybe consider why that might be. Why might people not think your demands are appropriate? What would happen if there could never be any consequences for people credibly accused of sexual misconduct (or other things, for that matter) until your demands for sufficient due process are met?
Should be an exciting intellectual journey, best of luck with it.
@lessi17 said in #142:
> Then go and compare it to what is known about the Ramirez case.
I have no idea who Ramirez is, but I guess since the evidence is strong he must be in jail... Problem solved, one sex offender down, many more to go.

Sorry, I haven't read the rest of your message, it's too long, I'd appreciate if you TLDR it for me.

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